Comments on: The Air Traffic Controller Union: What is NATCA’s Value Today? http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/ Aviation buzz and bold opinion Thu, 09 Feb 2012 02:44:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Affiliatedotcom http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-165666 Affiliatedotcom Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:34:23 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-165666 What does the above need to do with the value of natca? Does the afl contemplate strikebreakers good for the labor movement, and if so why are their numbers dropping, and why have others have dis affiliated with them. (Change to win) What will be the foundation of the FAA union? What power do they genuinely have? They signed off with Pres Reagan for a job so what may be the complaint. What does the above need to do with the value of natca? Does the afl contemplate strikebreakers good for the labor movement, and if so why are their numbers dropping, and why have others have dis affiliated with them. (Change to win) What will be the foundation of the FAA union? What power do they genuinely have? They signed off with Pres Reagan for a job so what may be the complaint.

]]> By: rick http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-39820 rick Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:40:30 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-39820 as for the guy who just tested for being a controller and a union, on a large scale the union hasn't done what we would want them to do getting this contract shoved down there throat but you have to think of it on a smaller level too to decide if you want to join. the union rep is going to help you ou when you get to your facility with the different paperwork and forms you need to fill out as well as give you some suggestions for your retirement and stuff of that nature. if you have a deal or have some issues with training he is going to stand up for you and get you the extra time you need for training and keep you from getting the boot to your rear end at the first sign of trouble. also if you want to move to another facility later then being in the union means you have someone you can call to sorta grease the machine at the new facility so you can try to get a transfer moving. I'm not particularly happy with what the union has done to the payscale, I can say that I work at a tower and the teachers in the school across the streer make more, and will continue to make more money than me even after I'm certified. even though people seem to think tearchers don't make enough, ha. you should most likely join the union, at least at first, and then if you decide they aren't doing enough for you leave as opposed to not joining than joining later, at least thats my opinion as for the guy who just tested for being a controller and a union, on a large scale the union hasn’t done what we would want them to do getting this contract shoved down there throat but you have to think of it on a smaller level too to decide if you want to join.
the union rep is going to help you ou when you get to your facility with the different paperwork and forms you need to fill out as well as give you some suggestions for your retirement and stuff of that nature. if you have a deal or have some issues with training he is going to stand up for you and get you the extra time you need for training and keep you from getting the boot to your rear end at the first sign of trouble. also if you want to move to another facility later then being in the union means you have someone you can call to sorta grease the machine at the new facility so you can try to get a transfer moving.

I’m not particularly happy with what the union has done to the payscale, I can say that I work at a tower and the teachers in the school across the streer make more, and will continue to make more money than me even after I’m certified. even though people seem to think tearchers don’t make enough, ha.

you should most likely join the union, at least at first, and then if you decide they aren’t doing enough for you leave as opposed to not joining than joining later, at least thats my opinion

]]> By: Razman http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-39113 Razman Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:52:14 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-39113 At least someone else is seeing the light re NATCA. When you pay dues to a Union ($1,800 per year for a controller making $120,000) you expect to see some benefits from your investment. The FAA can tell NATCA to go pound sand and all NATCA and do is say "How hard". What else can they do... go on strike? At least someone else is seeing the light re NATCA. When you pay dues to a Union ($1,800 per year for a controller making $120,000) you expect to see some benefits from your investment. The FAA can tell NATCA to go pound sand and all NATCA and do is say “How hard”. What else can they do… go on strike?

]]> By: Angels 20 http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-39063 Angels 20 Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:37:56 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-39063 NATCA is of NO VALUE at all. NATCA actions cause the public to view controllers as no more talented than Walmart employees. In fact, I would rather work, union free, for Walmart, that be a NATCA member. NATCA is corrupt and useless. NATCA is of NO VALUE at all. NATCA actions cause the public to view controllers as no more talented than Walmart employees. In fact, I would rather work, union free, for Walmart, that be a NATCA member. NATCA is corrupt and useless.

]]> By: sue http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-38271 sue Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:32:36 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-38271 I can't imagine what takes it is stay in a union. It just seems to me that unions are in the loosing end. I can’t imagine what takes it is stay in a union. It just seems to me that unions are in the loosing end.

]]> By: Razman http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-37235 Razman Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:02:20 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-37235 Tribe, If you enjoy throwing away 1.5% of your salary into a bit bucket, go ahead and join the union. They will do absolutely nothing for you, as proven by the lastest FAA imposed (forced) contract. So, if you like throwing your money away to a union (notice I didn't capitalize) that accepts dual pay bands for the same job (what kind of real union would sit back for that), then go ahead and join. Just remember, your salary will be a lot less than the person working next to you performing the same function if he is grandfathered under the old contract. Yeah, great union. Tribe,

If you enjoy throwing away 1.5% of your salary into a bit bucket, go ahead and join the union. They will do absolutely nothing for you, as proven by the lastest FAA imposed (forced) contract. So, if you like throwing your money away to a union (notice I didn’t capitalize) that accepts dual pay bands for the same job (what kind of real union would sit back for that), then go ahead and join. Just remember, your salary will be a lot less than the person working next to you performing the same function if he is grandfathered under the old contract. Yeah, great union.

]]> By: Oscar G Level 1 http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-36853 Oscar G Level 1 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:30:28 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-36853 xxxxing controllers ARE THE PROBLEM. xxxxing NATCA represents the problem. Can you say 'automation'? xxxxing controllers ARE THE PROBLEM. xxxxing NATCA represents the problem. Can you say ‘automation’?

]]> By: Tribe http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-21366 Tribe Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:12:17 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-21366 I'm getting ready to test to join the ATC career. I've read a lot of the above comments. As one who doesn't know too much about the Union(s) operation, my question is do I join or not join a Union? Where can i find some info? I’m getting ready to test to join the ATC career. I’ve read a lot of the above comments. As one who doesn’t know too much about the Union(s) operation, my question is do I join or not join a Union? Where can i find some info?

]]> By: Razman http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-14014 Razman Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:29:24 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-14014 RJ, I am a lot smarter since I went back to college right after the strike and got into computers and networking. I am now making a lot more than I would have made as a controller with no weekends, holidays or night shifts so getting smart is not the issue here. Do you think getting porked by the FAA on a daily basis is smart? If you are content with that lifestyle than I suggest you look up the definition of "smart". RR RJ,

I am a lot smarter since I went back to college right after the strike and got into computers and networking. I am now making a lot more than I would have made as a controller with no weekends, holidays or night shifts so getting smart is not the issue here. Do you think getting porked by the FAA on a daily basis is smart? If you are content with that lifestyle than I suggest you look up the definition of “smart”.

RR

]]> By: The FAA Follies » Blog Archive http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-2/#comment-9766 The FAA Follies » Blog Archive Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:14:28 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-9766 [...] of the FAA, more people are questioning the need for NATCA. This guy asked why NATCA even exists back in February. From his blog: I spoke last week to a NATCA rep at a major U.S. airport and I [...] [...] of the FAA, more people are questioning the need for NATCA. This guy asked why NATCA even exists back in February. From his blog: I spoke last week to a NATCA rep at a major U.S. airport and I [...]

]]> By: On the Record: An Interview with Former NATCA President John Carr - Jetwhine: Aviation Buzz and Bold Opinon http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-9157 On the Record: An Interview with Former NATCA President John Carr - Jetwhine: Aviation Buzz and Bold Opinon Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:35:50 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-9157 [...] Since there is little motivation to reopen talks and since NATCA has essentially no power to make the agency listen to anything they have to say, I asked Carr something I was pummeled for asking here on Jetwhine six months ago. Why does NATCA exi...   [...] [...] Since there is little motivation to reopen talks and since NATCA has essentially no power to make the agency listen to anything they have to say, I asked Carr something I was pummeled for asking here on Jetwhine six months ago. Why does NATCA exi…   [...]

]]> By: Ron Taylor http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-414 Ron Taylor Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:09:58 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-414 RJ, Guess what you have said only proves the point about NATCA and its history to the labor movement. In your words "Proud NATCA Member". Now even you should be thinking smarter about what you have just said. PATCO strikers are still locked out and discriminated against in hiring by the FAA, after more than fourteen years. Does that make you a proud union member? Proud of what? Ron Taylor President PATCO An Independent Labor Union Certified by the NLRB www.patco81.com RJ,

Guess what you have said only proves the point about NATCA and its history to the labor movement.

In your words “Proud NATCA Member”. Now even you should be thinking smarter about what you have just said. PATCO strikers are still locked out and discriminated against in hiring by the FAA, after more than fourteen years. Does that make you a proud union member?

Proud of what?

Ron Taylor
President
PATCO

An Independent Labor Union
Certified by the NLRB

http://www.patco81.com

]]> By: RJ http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-411 RJ Sat, 10 Mar 2007 04:35:56 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-411 Razman, You made your decision years ago and you have had to live with it. I can't help that you're pissed at the world for your mistake...... You may have talked the talk and walked the walk, but try to be smarter in the future. RJ Proud NATCA Member! Razman,

You made your decision years ago and you have had to live with it. I can’t help that you’re pissed at the world for your mistake…… You may have talked the talk and walked the walk, but try to be smarter in the future.

RJ
Proud NATCA Member!

]]> By: Cleveland Thornton III http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-294 Cleveland Thornton III Mon, 19 Feb 2007 04:56:37 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-294 NOTHING IS PERFECT or "guaranteed to work". For 20+ years, I tried to deal with loosing air traffic control. My call to come back, was from a rude and vague person and she just bluntly asked me, "Do you want to come back to air traffic control?" I said, "I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE... I DON'T APPRECIATE YOUR FUCKING JOKE..." and I hung up the phone. As it turned out... her call was legitimate (regardless her manner...) AND NOW, I've been back for 7 years: tonight is 2-18-2007. PEOPLE... ya need to stop and deal with the now. My heart was/is PATCO. My current membership is... NATCA. I made my own decisions in 1981 and I feel good about me. I'm back... I still feel good about me and I'M A NATCA MEMBER. I going to rejoin PATCO. I'm 53 and I'm going to SOCAL in June of this year bcoz, I love this job. Read between my lines and... work for truth. UNIONS have an obligation to protect it's members. I see no reason for PATCO and NATCA to fight... because both have made and continue to make mistakes. THE TRUTH IS... any union without "a right to strike" is a union with limited strength. FIGHT FOR THAT... (smile), and pursue your agendas REMEMBERING... PATCO/NATCA is of the same family. TN NOTHING IS PERFECT or “guaranteed to work”. For 20+ years, I tried to deal with loosing air traffic control. My call to come back, was from a rude and vague person and she just bluntly asked me, “Do you want to come back to air traffic control?” I said, “I DON’T KNOW WHO YOU ARE… I DON’T APPRECIATE YOUR FUCKING JOKE…” and I hung up the phone. As it turned out… her call was legitimate (regardless her manner…) AND NOW, I’ve been back for 7 years: tonight is 2-18-2007.

PEOPLE… ya need to stop and deal with the now. My heart was/is PATCO. My current membership is… NATCA. I made my own decisions in 1981 and I feel good about me. I’m back… I still feel good about me and I’M A NATCA MEMBER. I going to rejoin PATCO.

I’m 53 and I’m going to SOCAL in June of this year bcoz, I love this job.

Read between my lines and… work for truth. UNIONS have an obligation to protect it’s members. I see no reason for PATCO and NATCA to fight… because both have made and continue to make mistakes.

THE TRUTH IS… any union without “a right to strike” is a union with limited strength. FIGHT FOR THAT… (smile), and pursue your agendas REMEMBERING… PATCO/NATCA is of the same family.

TN

]]> By: Gerald O'Brien http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-281 Gerald O'Brien Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:07:48 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-281 To Bill South and VRob.....amen amen amen! ...another '81 veteran To Bill South and VRob…..amen amen amen!
…another ’81 veteran

]]> By: Razman http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-261 Razman Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:17:29 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-261 cyras21, I've already walked the walk and talked the talk. I was a proud PATCO local President and National officer that walked the walk on the picket line in 81'. I don't know why you smart boys haven't figured that out yet. I am not, nor will I ever become a non-union (NATCA) member. I cannot fathom how anyone would pay 1.5% of a high salary for the services rendered. I guess I have validated that I stood up and led, so I don't have to "shut up". I've paid more dues for your current benefits than you ever will. BTW, You're welcome. Razman... # cyras21 Says: February 7th, 2007 at 8:14 pm Razman, Are you gonna walk a picket line? You’ve been talking the talk so let’s walk the walk. Stand up and lead or shut-up. cyras21,

I’ve already walked the walk and talked the talk. I was a proud PATCO local President and National officer that walked the walk on the picket line in 81′. I don’t know why you smart boys haven’t figured that out yet. I am not, nor will I ever become a non-union (NATCA) member. I cannot fathom how anyone would pay 1.5% of a high salary for the services rendered.

I guess I have validated that I stood up and led, so I don’t have to “shut up”. I’ve paid more dues for your current benefits than you ever will.

BTW, You’re welcome.

Razman…

# cyras21 Says:
February 7th, 2007 at 8:14 pm

Razman,

Are you gonna walk a picket line? You’ve been talking the talk so let’s walk the walk. Stand up and lead or shut-up.

]]> By: Jetwhine » Blog Archive » Union or Non-Union? http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-242 Jetwhine » Blog Archive » Union or Non-Union? Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:17:44 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-242 [...] During the recent discussion on Jetwhine about the air traffic controller’s union, NATCA, a point was made that although NATCA has stumbled a bit recently, A union is better than NO union. [...] [...] During the recent discussion on Jetwhine about the air traffic controller’s union, NATCA, a point was made that although NATCA has stumbled a bit recently, A union is better than NO union. [...]

]]> By: Jetwhine » Blog Archive » Will Comair Pilots Strike This Time? http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-241 Jetwhine » Blog Archive » Will Comair Pilots Strike This Time? Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:16:46 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-241 [...] Is A union better than NO union? If you think so, how do you carve out the parts of collective bargaining you agree with fro [...] [...] Is A union better than NO union? If you think so, how do you carve out the parts of collective bargaining you agree with fro [...]

]]> By: Bill South http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-239 Bill South Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:18:52 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-239 Haynes Johnson, a best-selling American writer who has guested on Face The Nation and Meet The Press several times, wrote in his book "Sleepwalking Through History," about how Texas oil barons celebrated Bonzo's 1980 presidential win about the petroleum industry-wide fete in Dallas in post-election November. The room was shouder to shoulder with executives and Republican campaign contributors. At the center was a gigantic 10-foot cake replica of the White House. The icing was adorned with a single decorative word: "Ours." The proclamation still applies. Democrats have tried and tried to wipe the inscription from the cake, but the Republican millionaires in congress have (so far) been unable to wrest control of the icing from Dick (Before he Dicks You) Cheney's Halliburton-ites and his pupil, G.W. Bush & Company's oily pals. Will 1980 be with us forever? Haynes Johnson, a best-selling American writer who has guested on Face The Nation and Meet The Press several times, wrote in his book “Sleepwalking Through History,” about how Texas oil barons celebrated Bonzo’s 1980 presidential win about the petroleum industry-wide fete in Dallas in post-election November. The room was shouder to shoulder with executives and Republican campaign contributors. At the center was a gigantic 10-foot cake replica of the White House. The icing was adorned with a single decorative word: “Ours.”
The proclamation still applies. Democrats have tried and tried to wipe the inscription from the cake, but the Republican millionaires in congress have (so far) been unable to wrest control of the icing from Dick (Before he Dicks You) Cheney’s Halliburton-ites and his pupil, G.W. Bush & Company’s oily pals.
Will 1980 be with us forever?

]]> By: Gary Kerr http://www.jetwhine.com/2007/02/the-air-traffic-controller-union-what-is-natcas-value-today/comment-page-1/#comment-235 Gary Kerr Fri, 09 Feb 2007 04:53:54 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/?p=69#comment-235 Very interesting comments throughout. But let's face it, the Boston Tea Party wasn't a social event for the well-to-do. The 1961 Freedom Riders weren't looking for, and they certainly didn't get, "a free ride." Yes, I know, things didn't work out too well for the Confederates who fired the first shots on Fort Sumter, nor did things work out well for Admiral Yamamoto when he decided to drop a few bombs and torpedoes on Pearl Harbor. The Pullman strike of 1984 didn't go exactly as planned either. History usually favors the winning side in a conflict, so my point isn't to assign a "Right" and a "Wrong" label to any past conflict, but rather to point out that few really big or important changes occur without conflict. That's a bummer. Very interesting comments throughout.

But let’s face it, the Boston Tea Party wasn’t a social event for the well-to-do.

The 1961 Freedom Riders weren’t looking for, and they certainly didn’t get, “a free ride.”

Yes, I know, things didn’t work out too well for the Confederates who fired the first shots on Fort Sumter, nor did things work out well for Admiral Yamamoto when he decided to drop a few bombs and torpedoes on Pearl Harbor. The Pullman strike of 1984 didn’t go exactly as planned either.

History usually favors the winning side in a conflict, so my point isn’t to assign a “Right” and a “Wrong” label to any past conflict, but rather to point out that few really big or important changes occur without conflict.

That’s a bummer.

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