Comments on: ATC Overtime; The Conversation Continues http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/ Aviation buzz and bold opinion Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:16:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Jeff martin http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27077 Jeff martin Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:18:56 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27077 There are controllers that volunteer for overtime for many reasons. I was hired in 83. Six day mandatory weeks. Once the OT became voluntary, I didn't work another shift for 15 years or so. As my retirement dat neared, I began accepting an occasional extra shift and earning compensatory time or credit hours [roughly the same as comp time]. The reason for this? So I could save my vacation time in my last year of employment and receive a cash payment for accrued leave. Many controllers are doing this as they approach retirement. Many controllers, just like any profession, are greedy. This isn't a slam. Greed is what makes our economic system work. The six day weeks are not as hard for a 25 yr old to bounce back from as they are for a 50 yr old. Controllers are often the last to call for help or admit they can't hack it. The 2-2-1 schedule, that many controllers love, is the absolute worst schedule in terms of worker fatigue. By the way, the FAA will not accept fatigue as a reason for not coming to work. If your wife goes to the emergency room at midnight and you are awake all night, the FAA expects you to report for duty at 7:00 am as scheduled. There are controllers that volunteer for overtime for many reasons. I was hired in 83. Six day mandatory weeks. Once the OT became voluntary, I didn’t work another shift for 15 years or so. As my retirement dat neared, I began accepting an occasional extra shift and earning compensatory time or credit hours [roughly the same as comp time]. The reason for this? So I could save my vacation time in my last year of employment and receive a cash payment for accrued leave. Many controllers are doing this as they approach retirement.

Many controllers, just like any profession, are greedy. This isn’t a slam. Greed is what makes our economic system work. The six day weeks are not as hard for a 25 yr old to bounce back from as they are for a 50 yr old. Controllers are often the last to call for help or admit they can’t hack it. The 2-2-1 schedule, that many controllers love, is the absolute worst schedule in terms of worker fatigue. By the way, the FAA will not accept fatigue as a reason for not coming to work. If your wife goes to the emergency room at midnight and you are awake all night, the FAA expects you to report for duty at 7:00 am as scheduled.

]]> By: Tim http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27041 Tim Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:35:06 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27041 I work at a small to medium sized up/down facility and I can tell you that the FAA misrepresents the intent of the overtime list. I have on ocassion been called in for overtime that was neither wanted nor scheduled but I had to work it anyway. I can refuse (And often do!) but if they go thru the list and no one is reached they call back and ASSIGN the overtime! We have all become smarter in that we have caller ID's on our phones. The one other thing I want to say is that a lot of us look at this issue as wanting to make sure our fellow controllers are safe. So if I get a call for overtime I am not doing it for the money, the FAA, or because I'm volunteering. I'm doing it to help a fellow controller out. I work at a small to medium sized up/down facility and I can tell you that the FAA misrepresents the intent of the overtime list. I have on ocassion been called in for overtime that was neither wanted nor scheduled but I had to work it anyway. I can refuse (And often do!) but if they go thru the list and no one is reached they call back and ASSIGN the overtime! We have all become smarter in that we have caller ID’s on our phones. The one other thing I want to say is that a lot of us look at this issue as wanting to make sure our fellow controllers are safe. So if I get a call for overtime I am not doing it for the money, the FAA, or because I’m volunteering. I’m doing it to help a fellow controller out.

]]> By: D http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27039 D Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:49:32 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27039 Mr. Mark, if you get a response from the FAA, ask them about the root of this problem, why is all this overtime being assigned anyway? I heard it was almost 100 million spent last year. You will have to verify that, not sure if it is correct. Mr. Mark, if you get a response from the FAA, ask them about the root of this problem, why is all this overtime being assigned anyway? I heard it was almost 100 million spent last year. You will have to verify that, not sure if it is correct.

]]> By: nonamebecauseIamafraidImightgetfired http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27037 nonamebecauseIamafraidImightgetfired Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:14:40 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27037 Add me to the list of "I don't want OT", but was assigned it anyway. Add me to the list of “I don’t want OT”, but was assigned it anyway.

]]> By: Chris http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27036 Chris Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:57:57 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27036 A class act response. Thank you Jetwine for keeping an objective outlook. However, The "facts" and statements you obtain from FAA spokes-persons need to be taken with a million grains of salt. Remember, Marion Blakey was a Public Relations Specialist, not an Air Traffic Control Specialist. She put in place the people she needed to accomplish her misguided mission. A class act response. Thank you Jetwine for keeping an objective outlook. However, The “facts” and statements you obtain from FAA spokes-persons need to be taken with a million grains of salt. Remember, Marion Blakey was a Public Relations Specialist, not an Air Traffic Control Specialist. She put in place the people she needed to accomplish her misguided mission.

]]> By: On the "No" List http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27034 On the "No" List Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:37:02 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27034 First, I am on the "no" list and I have gotten called and scheduled for OT. This point was made in the comments on your other blog but it needs to be made again. You know there are plenty of pilots who would fly 24 hours straight if they could. Just because they would volunteer to do that doesn't mean they should be allowed to. But not to worry, "fatigue is such a vague issue." -FAA quote First, I am on the “no” list and I have gotten called and scheduled for OT.

This point was made in the comments on your other blog but it needs to be made again. You know there are plenty of pilots who would fly 24 hours straight if they could. Just because they would volunteer to do that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to. But not to worry, “fatigue is such a vague issue.” -FAA quote

]]> By: Debbie http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27024 Debbie Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:50:29 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27024 The true story is IF they had hired sooner, there WOULDN'T BE A NEED FOR OVERTIME. The FAA dropped the ball big time. In 17 years I have never seen so much overtime used as in the past 2 years. Overtime isn't something that is worked just because controllers want some extra money. I is a shortage on the schedule that has to be filled one way or another. Laura Brown has been quoted as saying "Fatigue is such a vague thing" and "Safety was never compromised" I am sure her respose will be of the similar spin. But the controllers are the ones working the overtime, and it isn't voluntary no matter how they spin it. The true story is IF they had hired sooner, there WOULDN’T BE A NEED FOR OVERTIME. The FAA dropped the ball big time. In 17 years I have never seen so much overtime used as in the past 2 years. Overtime isn’t something that is worked just because controllers want some extra money. I is a shortage on the schedule that has to be filled one way or another.
Laura Brown has been quoted as saying “Fatigue is such a vague thing” and “Safety was never compromised” I am sure her respose will be of the similar spin. But the controllers are the ones working the overtime, and it isn’t voluntary no matter how they spin it.

]]> By: Burned out http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27020 Burned out Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:44:14 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27020 A follow up: NATCA has been requesting of its member to request no OT for a few months now so the agency can't use that "list" against us in the media. Well, it seems Bruce Johnson doesn't much care for everyone jumping of the FAA-Titanic, and recently advised NATCA that our requesting of our members to not be on the OT list is **A JOB ACTION** and threatening to have the union decertified as a federal union. That's right. A controller not wanting OT or requesting to be removed from a list being used for propaganda in the media is suddenly as heinous as a large number of controllers going on strike. This administration, and the people who've bought into it are out of control. Someone please help us. A follow up:

NATCA has been requesting of its member to request no OT for a few months now so the agency can’t use that “list” against us in the media.

Well, it seems Bruce Johnson doesn’t much care for everyone jumping of the FAA-Titanic, and recently advised NATCA that our requesting of our members to not be on the OT list is **A JOB ACTION** and threatening to have the union decertified as a federal union.

That’s right. A controller not wanting OT or requesting to be removed from a list being used for propaganda in the media is suddenly as heinous as a large number of controllers going on strike.

This administration, and the people who’ve bought into it are out of control.

Someone please help us.

]]> By: dave w http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27017 dave w Sun, 17 Feb 2008 09:32:12 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27017 go to gettheflick.blogspot.com for an informative article on this topic. go to gettheflick.blogspot.com for an informative article on this topic.

]]> By: dave w http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27015 dave w Sun, 17 Feb 2008 09:12:55 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27015 When talking to the faa public affairs. If their lips are moving, it's a lie. When talking to the faa public affairs. If their lips are moving, it’s a lie.

]]> By: Scott C. @ K90 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27007 Scott C. @ K90 Sun, 17 Feb 2008 03:47:08 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-27007 "I simply published paperwork that existed from FAA and the GAO and asked someone to set me straight if I missed the point." Not quite Mr. Mark. You got an intriguing bit of tech-no-drivel from the head of an agency you have accused of ignoring the truth. So you regurgitate this material under your blog, and call us (NATCA) out, saying we have to explain ourselves. I understand, as a blogger, your claims do not have to rise to editorial standards, but its time to admit you did a stupid thing, and admonishing your readers for fowl language brought on by you own irresponsibility isn’t going to get your credibility back. My brothers and sisters in this fight have been tuning in to you blog because you have shown yourself, until now anyway, as an objective onlooker who is only interested in seeing the best possible solution to this situation. I am glad to see that you have contacted Doug Church. I am confident any info you receive from him will withstand any editorial standards. Please keep digging for the TRUTH! And remember what is at stake here. “I simply published paperwork that existed from FAA and the GAO and asked someone to set me straight if I missed the point.”

Not quite Mr. Mark. You got an intriguing bit of tech-no-drivel from the head of an agency you have accused of ignoring the truth. So you regurgitate this material under your blog, and call us (NATCA) out, saying we have to explain ourselves. I understand, as a blogger, your claims do not have to rise to editorial standards, but its time to admit you did a stupid thing, and admonishing your readers for fowl language brought on by you own irresponsibility isn’t going to get your credibility back. My brothers and sisters in this fight have been tuning in to you blog because you have shown yourself, until now anyway, as an objective onlooker who is only interested in seeing the best possible solution to this situation. I am glad to see that you have contacted Doug Church. I am confident any info you receive from him will withstand any editorial standards. Please keep digging for the TRUTH! And remember what is at stake here.

]]> By: ac2usn http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-26985 ac2usn Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:19:31 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-26985 We can not refuse overtime. It works out better to be on a volunteer list because you have some input to the shift and day you are scheduled (in advance) than to be a fill the blank with Joe the controller. So we are caught coming and going. Understand the overtime is not wanted, five shifts a week is more than enough. We can not refuse overtime. It works out better to be on a volunteer list because you have some input to the shift and day you are scheduled (in advance) than to be a fill the blank with Joe the controller. So we are caught coming and going. Understand the overtime is not wanted, five shifts a week is more than enough.

]]> By: Jeff Aulbach http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-26967 Jeff Aulbach Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:15:25 +0000 http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/02/atc-overtime-the-conversation-continues/#comment-26967 Thanks for putting in the effort in getting the whole story. It is sometimes difficult to convey what we want to tell you by typing it down. Thanks for putting in the effort in getting the whole story. It is sometimes difficult to convey what we want to tell you by typing it down.

]]>