<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: United and Continental Airlines: Dumb and Dumber</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/</link>
	<description>Aviation buzz and bold opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36407</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36407</guid>
		<description>I can't wait for the this latest crop of UAL mismanagers to migrate on over to the FAA.  It's a shame this is the business the FAA chooses to emulate in their quest to "run like a businsess."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t wait for the this latest crop of UAL mismanagers to migrate on over to the FAA.  It&#8217;s a shame this is the business the FAA chooses to emulate in their quest to &#8220;run like a businsess.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36321</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36321</guid>
		<description>You're probably right, Tilting. The message here? Give some serious thought to that CAL stock at $9.80 or whatever it's trading at today, because the long-term prospects are pretty bright for America's only legacy airline to still serve meals in Coach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re probably right, Tilting. The message here? Give some serious thought to that CAL stock at $9.80 or whatever it&#8217;s trading at today, because the long-term prospects are pretty bright for America&#8217;s only legacy airline to still serve meals in Coach.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tilting</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36283</link>
		<dc:creator>Tilting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36283</guid>
		<description>I spent many years on the inside of UA and I think you are spot on with your commentary other than Avolar.  It was a solid idea that never got its fair chance.  The business traveler is moving in droves to this new class of service and the legacy carriers like UA have become nothing more than the Sears and Montgomery Ward of air transportation-- getting squeezed from both ends and will likely suffer the same fate.  Incidentally, the pilots supported the idea.

Back to the main theme, as you pointed out the management team at CO is exponentially smarter and more cohesive than the executive team at UA.  Much like Lufthansa has been doing for years CO will pick UA's pockets in the codeshare.  Once you standardize schedules, fares, frequent flyer programs and lounge access the only point of differentiation left is the onboard product and service.  All the high end traffic will pick CO metal to fly on when they can because of the better product.  UA will be left to collect the leftovers.  In the end the economics depend on the pro-rate agreement but rest assured CO will outflank UA and pick up disproportionate value.  The playbook already exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent many years on the inside of UA and I think you are spot on with your commentary other than Avolar.  It was a solid idea that never got its fair chance.  The business traveler is moving in droves to this new class of service and the legacy carriers like UA have become nothing more than the Sears and Montgomery Ward of air transportation&#8211; getting squeezed from both ends and will likely suffer the same fate.  Incidentally, the pilots supported the idea.</p>
<p>Back to the main theme, as you pointed out the management team at CO is exponentially smarter and more cohesive than the executive team at UA.  Much like Lufthansa has been doing for years CO will pick UA&#8217;s pockets in the codeshare.  Once you standardize schedules, fares, frequent flyer programs and lounge access the only point of differentiation left is the onboard product and service.  All the high end traffic will pick CO metal to fly on when they can because of the better product.  UA will be left to collect the leftovers.  In the end the economics depend on the pro-rate agreement but rest assured CO will outflank UA and pick up disproportionate value.  The playbook already exists.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Heimburger</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36273</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Heimburger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36273</guid>
		<description>The cancer is spread too far and wide among the UAL employees.

And the asset base is also worn down – much like the PanAm Far East assets that UAL purchased in the mid 1980’s.

I think that the smart thing to do would be to try to heavily code share in international markets – to reduce flying. 

I thought that CAL could not get out of their current alliance until at least 9 months after the DAL/NWA deal is consummated – likely alliance withdrawl time late 2009.

Think of what the US airline ownership would be like without the current foreign investment restrictions.(Low market valuations – cheap prices.) 

You should start a pool on who is next into bankruptcy.

Mesa
Pinncle
US Air
UAL
DAL
NWA
AMR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cancer is spread too far and wide among the UAL employees.</p>
<p>And the asset base is also worn down – much like the PanAm Far East assets that UAL purchased in the mid 1980’s.</p>
<p>I think that the smart thing to do would be to try to heavily code share in international markets – to reduce flying. </p>
<p>I thought that CAL could not get out of their current alliance until at least 9 months after the DAL/NWA deal is consummated – likely alliance withdrawl time late 2009.</p>
<p>Think of what the US airline ownership would be like without the current foreign investment restrictions.(Low market valuations – cheap prices.) </p>
<p>You should start a pool on who is next into bankruptcy.</p>
<p>Mesa<br />
Pinncle<br />
US Air<br />
UAL<br />
DAL<br />
NWA<br />
AMR</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36270</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36270</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this Ron. Dragging CAL down is precisely what I would be worried about, unless, as a couple of the readers said earlier, CAL is strong enough to wait to pick up the UAL pieces.

And wasn't it Continental years ago that had the "We really move our tails for you," commerical?
 
Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this Ron. Dragging CAL down is precisely what I would be worried about, unless, as a couple of the readers said earlier, CAL is strong enough to wait to pick up the UAL pieces.</p>
<p>And wasn&#8217;t it Continental years ago that had the &#8220;We really move our tails for you,&#8221; commerical?</p>
<p>Rob</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron Heimburger</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36269</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Heimburger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36269</guid>
		<description>Southwest just celebrated their 37th anniversary.

They hire good people, train them well, focus them on the customers and their fellow employees, and treat them well (employee events, parties after weekend off-site training sessions, and decent stock options).

And their management – including senior management – lead by example.

They have also never furloughed employees or cut wages (with exception of the first two years when
Braniff and American tried to use the Texas court system to run them out of Texas).

Continental has emulated a number of these activities – employee bonuses based on activities that retain customers (on-time performance, baggage issues) – employee bonuses that drive down costs (perfect attendance, schedulecompletion, etc.) And Continental did turn around a very “beat up and worn out” employee group afterthe last bankruptcy in the mid 1990’s.

Interestingly enough – many of the CAL senior flight crews - continue to use the “Proud Bird” and “Pride” in their in-flight announcements and customer discussions. (CAL used the advertising themes of
“Proud Bird with the Golden Tail” and “Service with Pride” in the 1960’s and 1970’s.)

And CAL senior management has agreed not to receive their salaries for the last 7 months of 2008 in conjunction with the upcoming flight and employee reductions..

The UAL EXO crowd would never dream of that.

Hopefully United will not drag CAL down.

Take care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Southwest just celebrated their 37th anniversary.</p>
<p>They hire good people, train them well, focus them on the customers and their fellow employees, and treat them well (employee events, parties after weekend off-site training sessions, and decent stock options).</p>
<p>And their management – including senior management – lead by example.</p>
<p>They have also never furloughed employees or cut wages (with exception of the first two years when<br />
Braniff and American tried to use the Texas court system to run them out of Texas).</p>
<p>Continental has emulated a number of these activities – employee bonuses based on activities that retain customers (on-time performance, baggage issues) – employee bonuses that drive down costs (perfect attendance, schedulecompletion, etc.) And Continental did turn around a very “beat up and worn out” employee group afterthe last bankruptcy in the mid 1990’s.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough – many of the CAL senior flight crews - continue to use the “Proud Bird” and “Pride” in their in-flight announcements and customer discussions. (CAL used the advertising themes of<br />
“Proud Bird with the Golden Tail” and “Service with Pride” in the 1960’s and 1970’s.)</p>
<p>And CAL senior management has agreed not to receive their salaries for the last 7 months of 2008 in conjunction with the upcoming flight and employee reductions..</p>
<p>The UAL EXO crowd would never dream of that.</p>
<p>Hopefully United will not drag CAL down.</p>
<p>Take care.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36222</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36222</guid>
		<description>People keep acting like this is a merger; it isn't. Continental is America's best legacy carrier. The company already has a bilateral partnership with Alaska Airlines, the only legacy carrier that IS of its caliber, and partnering with United is no more a drag on them than has been their SkyTeam partnership with Delta and Northwest.  

Star Alliance membership aligns Continental with some of the best premium carriers on Earth, including Singapore Airlines (always ranked #1). It also gives Continental's customers access to extensive service to Australia (which SkyTeam doesn't have). Linking up with United for codesharing doesn't mean that Kellner's team is going to abandon its strategic plan or start emulating United's standards of customer service... it never emulated Delta or Northwest during its time in SkyTeam. This move is a good one for Continental that will help it stand out in a very competitive market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People keep acting like this is a merger; it isn&#8217;t. Continental is America&#8217;s best legacy carrier. The company already has a bilateral partnership with Alaska Airlines, the only legacy carrier that IS of its caliber, and partnering with United is no more a drag on them than has been their SkyTeam partnership with Delta and Northwest.  </p>
<p>Star Alliance membership aligns Continental with some of the best premium carriers on Earth, including Singapore Airlines (always ranked #1). It also gives Continental&#8217;s customers access to extensive service to Australia (which SkyTeam doesn&#8217;t have). Linking up with United for codesharing doesn&#8217;t mean that Kellner&#8217;s team is going to abandon its strategic plan or start emulating United&#8217;s standards of customer service&#8230; it never emulated Delta or Northwest during its time in SkyTeam. This move is a good one for Continental that will help it stand out in a very competitive market.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36201</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36201</guid>
		<description>You folks don't miss anything. Gary is absolutely correct. I should have said Sky Team and not One World.

The nice part about Web 2.0 is that errors are not always forever.

Thanks for catching this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You folks don&#8217;t miss anything. Gary is absolutely correct. I should have said Sky Team and not One World.</p>
<p>The nice part about Web 2.0 is that errors are not always forever.</p>
<p>Thanks for catching this.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary C</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36196</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36196</guid>
		<description>Check your facts, the fact that you said CO withdrew from OneWorld Alliance sheds doubt on the credibility of the entire article.  CO was never a member of OneWorld, they were a member of SkyTeam!  Because of the NW/DL merger and their involvement in SkyTeam, they were looking to change alliances.  They were talking with AA, but never joined OneWorld!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check your facts, the fact that you said CO withdrew from OneWorld Alliance sheds doubt on the credibility of the entire article.  CO was never a member of OneWorld, they were a member of SkyTeam!  Because of the NW/DL merger and their involvement in SkyTeam, they were looking to change alliances.  They were talking with AA, but never joined OneWorld!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36176</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36176</guid>
		<description>I think both of you raised some important questions. But is Star healthier overall than One World or is it only in the sheer numbers of members?

And come to think of it, how do they track the success of the alliances?

What I also find interesting is that you both seem to be pointing at CAL jumping in to be ready to pick off the bits from a United carcass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think both of you raised some important questions. But is Star healthier overall than One World or is it only in the sheer numbers of members?</p>
<p>And come to think of it, how do they track the success of the alliances?</p>
<p>What I also find interesting is that you both seem to be pointing at CAL jumping in to be ready to pick off the bits from a United carcass.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ning Wang</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36169</link>
		<dc:creator>Ning Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36169</guid>
		<description>CAL have two (major)things to gain in such agreement

1. Access to UAUA's East Asia network - arguably the most desirable piece

2. A test drive for UAUA's premium customers - the contrast in service quality will ensure CAL retain most of its premium customers and possibly grab UA's premium customers down the road. Even better, to demonstrate that Kellner could manage a combined network better than UAUA's management</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CAL have two (major)things to gain in such agreement</p>
<p>1. Access to UAUA&#8217;s East Asia network - arguably the most desirable piece</p>
<p>2. A test drive for UAUA&#8217;s premium customers - the contrast in service quality will ensure CAL retain most of its premium customers and possibly grab UA&#8217;s premium customers down the road. Even better, to demonstrate that Kellner could manage a combined network better than UAUA&#8217;s management</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Evan Sparks</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36166</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Sparks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/06/united-and-continental-airlines-dumb-and-dumber/#comment-36166</guid>
		<description>Since United isn't doing well and "Star alliance seems to be pretty healthy," perhaps Continental senses that it can become Star's U.S. flagship carrier, while Star plans for its own viability by recruiting a much healthier airline should United go under.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since United isn&#8217;t doing well and &#8220;Star alliance seems to be pretty healthy,&#8221; perhaps Continental senses that it can become Star&#8217;s U.S. flagship carrier, while Star plans for its own viability by recruiting a much healthier airline should United go under.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
