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	<title>Comments on: NTSB Needs to Re-Admit NATCA to Investigation</title>
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	<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/</link>
	<description>Aviation buzz and bold opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-91130</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-91130</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that link Dave.

Some might say that the NTSB only apportions blame, but let&#039;s be honest. Their mandate is to decide what happened. That means pointing the finger.

The problem - at least to me - always seemed to focus on the simplicity of the answers ... &quot;Pilot failed to maintain control,&quot; ... &quot;Pilot flew into IFR weather ... &quot; etc.

The questions they never answer is why the pilot or the controller did what they did. Why did the controller at LEX show up for work with only two hours of sleep that day?

We never hear any more about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that link Dave.</p>
<p>Some might say that the NTSB only apportions blame, but let&#8217;s be honest. Their mandate is to decide what happened. That means pointing the finger.</p>
<p>The problem &#8211; at least to me &#8211; always seemed to focus on the simplicity of the answers &#8230; &#8220;Pilot failed to maintain control,&#8221; &#8230; &#8220;Pilot flew into IFR weather &#8230; &#8221; etc.</p>
<p>The questions they never answer is why the pilot or the controller did what they did. Why did the controller at LEX show up for work with only two hours of sleep that day?</p>
<p>We never hear any more about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-91128</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-91128</guid>
		<description>The NTSB has always looked to apportion blame rather than adopt a systems approach to safety and human error. Read this:
Recently, I attended a lecture by Sydney Dekker, pilot, aircraft mishap researcher and a university professor in Sweden. Dekker is an advocate for alternative ways to conduct the human factors portion of a mishap investigation. Some investigators may find his views quite radical (I witnessed this from an NTSB investigator during the lecture) while others will immediately identify with his ideas. I believe everyone who may be called upon to perform human error investigations will benefit from Dekkers thoughts on the subject.
Taken from: http://www.safetyfromknowledge.com/pdf/FOCUS%20Paper%20on%20Human%20Error.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NTSB has always looked to apportion blame rather than adopt a systems approach to safety and human error. Read this:<br />
Recently, I attended a lecture by Sydney Dekker, pilot, aircraft mishap researcher and a university professor in Sweden. Dekker is an advocate for alternative ways to conduct the human factors portion of a mishap investigation. Some investigators may find his views quite radical (I witnessed this from an NTSB investigator during the lecture) while others will immediately identify with his ideas. I believe everyone who may be called upon to perform human error investigations will benefit from Dekkers thoughts on the subject.<br />
Taken from: <a href="http://www.safetyfromknowledge.com/pdf/FOCUS%20Paper%20on%20Human%20Error.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.safetyfromknowledge.com/pdf/FOCUS%20Paper%20on%20Human%20Error.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Airplane Geeks - Episode 62 - The Youngest Airplane Geek &#124; Airplane Geeks Podcast</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-91116</link>
		<dc:creator>Airplane Geeks - Episode 62 - The Youngest Airplane Geek &#124; Airplane Geeks Podcast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-91116</guid>
		<description>[...] NTSB Needs to Re-Admit NATCA to Investigation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NTSB Needs to Re-Admit NATCA to Investigation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-91022</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-91022</guid>
		<description>Please do Barry. rob@jetwhine.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please do Barry. <a href="mailto:rob@jetwhine.com">rob@jetwhine.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Barry Holt</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-91019</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Holt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-91019</guid>
		<description>Rob,

I&#039;ll keep the Excel-Jet story brief here. 
In 2006 the Sport-Jet (a VLJ entry by Excel-Jet) crashed/cartwheeled at the Colo. Springs airport. The company sued the gov. related to a controller error. And yes, the gov. claims pilot error. The pilot on board was a very experienced, ex-military, test pilot.
The &quot;PilotMag.com&quot; (july/aug 09) issue has a short piece on this &quot;The Sport-Jet Story.&quot; Seems this is just the beginning of the story. Rumor has it the premier wake vortex research institute in Europe will support/testify on behalf of Excel-Jet.

The best news...the two people in the plane walked away from the crash. The plane has a carbon fiber roll cage (like race cars) to protect occupants. Now that&#039;s the real story!

Some very interesting info is starting to come out of this one. If you&#039;d like a little more detail, I&#039;ll e-mail it to you at jetwhine. Let me know.

Barry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll keep the Excel-Jet story brief here.<br />
In 2006 the Sport-Jet (a VLJ entry by Excel-Jet) crashed/cartwheeled at the Colo. Springs airport. The company sued the gov. related to a controller error. And yes, the gov. claims pilot error. The pilot on board was a very experienced, ex-military, test pilot.<br />
The &#8220;PilotMag.com&#8221; (july/aug 09) issue has a short piece on this &#8220;The Sport-Jet Story.&#8221; Seems this is just the beginning of the story. Rumor has it the premier wake vortex research institute in Europe will support/testify on behalf of Excel-Jet.</p>
<p>The best news&#8230;the two people in the plane walked away from the crash. The plane has a carbon fiber roll cage (like race cars) to protect occupants. Now that&#8217;s the real story!</p>
<p>Some very interesting info is starting to come out of this one. If you&#8217;d like a little more detail, I&#8217;ll e-mail it to you at jetwhine. Let me know.</p>
<p>Barry</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-90971</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-90971</guid>
		<description>Interesting points Barry. In a VFR See-and -Be-Seen world, I don&#039;t think there is any doubt at all this will be labeled primarily as pilot error. 

As you point out though, there are ALWAYS extenuating circumstances. 

Was the controller being on the phone the cause here though. Probably not. Sure doesn&#039;t look like he was ready to be much help though.

It is interesting how organizations hide behind the &quot;rules say&quot; when it is convenient. We&#039;ve watched FAA do that for years.

In this case, &quot;the rules&quot; said NATCA is out. Anyone who is a party to an accident needs to add their two cents.

I&#039;m not familiar with the Excel-Jet story you mentioned. What&#039;s that about?

Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting points Barry. In a VFR See-and -Be-Seen world, I don&#8217;t think there is any doubt at all this will be labeled primarily as pilot error. </p>
<p>As you point out though, there are ALWAYS extenuating circumstances. </p>
<p>Was the controller being on the phone the cause here though. Probably not. Sure doesn&#8217;t look like he was ready to be much help though.</p>
<p>It is interesting how organizations hide behind the &#8220;rules say&#8221; when it is convenient. We&#8217;ve watched FAA do that for years.</p>
<p>In this case, &#8220;the rules&#8221; said NATCA is out. Anyone who is a party to an accident needs to add their two cents.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not familiar with the Excel-Jet story you mentioned. What&#8217;s that about?</p>
<p>Rob</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Holt</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-90967</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Holt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-90967</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, NATCA has a history of &quot;blaming the pilot&quot; in most small plane crashes. The NTSB also has a similar history. This was especially true when M. Blakey was involved with NTSB and FAA. 

This history of blaming the pilot (usually dead) has been a successful strategy for these organizations. They&#039;ve been able to deflect any scrutiny of their own errors and incompetencies. Again, this stems from the current culture of government agencies. This history has been seen in Dallas, New York, and the DOT indicates the problem is system-wide.

In the final report, on this case, I certainly expect to see the standard &quot;pilot error&quot; shown as the cause. Due to the history of the agencies, it&#039;ll be difficult to determine if this is the true cause or just another cover-up.

Some upcoming court cases are attempting to take on this &quot;culture of cover-up&quot; at the FAA. Looks like one has a good shot at exposing the ruse of &quot;it&#039;s always pilot error&quot; (the pilot is alive). Multiple issues exist in the Excel-Jet case: controller error, cover-up, gov. attorneys directing their witnesses to disregard critical pieces of physical evidence (thereby leading to false opinions), etc. Unfortunately, in this case the gov. has to smear and try to destroy the career of a very distinguished (military) black pilot in order to make their case. Totally unfair. I think this case will generate media attention and shine some light on the SOP at the FAA.

These issues are critical to GA. The only way to advance safety in aviation is to admit mistakes and learn from them. When this isn&#039;t done lives continue to be lost. I hope Babbitt can change the culture at the FAA/NATCA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, NATCA has a history of &#8220;blaming the pilot&#8221; in most small plane crashes. The NTSB also has a similar history. This was especially true when M. Blakey was involved with NTSB and FAA. </p>
<p>This history of blaming the pilot (usually dead) has been a successful strategy for these organizations. They&#8217;ve been able to deflect any scrutiny of their own errors and incompetencies. Again, this stems from the current culture of government agencies. This history has been seen in Dallas, New York, and the DOT indicates the problem is system-wide.</p>
<p>In the final report, on this case, I certainly expect to see the standard &#8220;pilot error&#8221; shown as the cause. Due to the history of the agencies, it&#8217;ll be difficult to determine if this is the true cause or just another cover-up.</p>
<p>Some upcoming court cases are attempting to take on this &#8220;culture of cover-up&#8221; at the FAA. Looks like one has a good shot at exposing the ruse of &#8220;it&#8217;s always pilot error&#8221; (the pilot is alive). Multiple issues exist in the Excel-Jet case: controller error, cover-up, gov. attorneys directing their witnesses to disregard critical pieces of physical evidence (thereby leading to false opinions), etc. Unfortunately, in this case the gov. has to smear and try to destroy the career of a very distinguished (military) black pilot in order to make their case. Totally unfair. I think this case will generate media attention and shine some light on the SOP at the FAA.</p>
<p>These issues are critical to GA. The only way to advance safety in aviation is to admit mistakes and learn from them. When this isn&#8217;t done lives continue to be lost. I hope Babbitt can change the culture at the FAA/NATCA.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna F</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-90228</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-90228</guid>
		<description>How is it right that the NTSB can issue a press release with erroneous information, and punish NATCA for calling them out on it after NATCA gave them the opportunity to correct it?   

It would be interesting to find out if the new head of NTSB is close with Marion. You have to wonder if there are other personal, behind the scenes things going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is it right that the NTSB can issue a press release with erroneous information, and punish NATCA for calling them out on it after NATCA gave them the opportunity to correct it?   </p>
<p>It would be interesting to find out if the new head of NTSB is close with Marion. You have to wonder if there are other personal, behind the scenes things going on.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-90140</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-90140</guid>
		<description>&quot;Whether NTSB behaved badly is totally irrelevant&quot;

Frank, really!  The NTSB didn&#039;t behave badly.  They released incorrect information.  Not just insignificant BS, but non-facts that had a direct bearing on the investigation and the controllers reputation.  Is it to much to ask of the NTSB to get their facts straight before crucifying the controller via news released?
      What happened to the good old days where the NTSB didn&#039;t give out info until they knew (or thought they knew) what actually happened?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Whether NTSB behaved badly is totally irrelevant&#8221;</p>
<p>Frank, really!  The NTSB didn&#8217;t behave badly.  They released incorrect information.  Not just insignificant BS, but non-facts that had a direct bearing on the investigation and the controllers reputation.  Is it to much to ask of the NTSB to get their facts straight before crucifying the controller via news released?<br />
      What happened to the good old days where the NTSB didn&#8217;t give out info until they knew (or thought they knew) what actually happened?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-90088</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-90088</guid>
		<description>So rules are rules and must never be disagreed with, right Frank?

Didn&#039;t NTSB going public with a statement of fact they could not support violate the agreement as well?

How would the union having pulled out of the investigation prior to going public have changed anything?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So rules are rules and must never be disagreed with, right Frank?</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t NTSB going public with a statement of fact they could not support violate the agreement as well?</p>
<p>How would the union having pulled out of the investigation prior to going public have changed anything?</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Van Haste</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-90083</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Van Haste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-90083</guid>
		<description>I disagree. NATCA should have withdrawn from the investigation BEFORE going public with their complaints. Whether NTSB behaved badly is totally irrelevant. NATCA&#039;s party status must not be restored -- the precedent would be disastrous in its effect on the integrity of future investigations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree. NATCA should have withdrawn from the investigation BEFORE going public with their complaints. Whether NTSB behaved badly is totally irrelevant. NATCA&#8217;s party status must not be restored &#8212; the precedent would be disastrous in its effect on the integrity of future investigations.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-90079</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/ntsb-needs-to-re-admit-natca-to-investigation/#comment-90079</guid>
		<description>This incident has changed my view of the NTSB.  In the past I have admired their meticulous attention to the process of finding the cause of accidents.  Their ability to look at a mob of reporters, who are asking for the cause of an accident while the wreckage still smolders, and say that they would not jump to conclusions until the investigation is complete.  I respected their recommendations, knowing that safety was the overriding intent, and shake my head when the FAA ignores the findings.

That being said, how the heck do they release a statement indicting the TEB controller, when their own timeline of events does not support the statement?  They just don&#039;t make irresponsible public announcements such as this.  Not even when that hack Marion Blakey was running the NTSB.

The correction statement was less than genuine.  Buried under a huge headline that NATCA was kicked off the investigation, and 7 paragraphs attempting to justify this action, came the admission of error.  To their credit, most news sources saw through the smoke screen and reported the NTSB admission and the correction as the newsworthy item.  The exception was the WSJ which took the predictable ant-union slant and led off with NATCA getting publicly spanked.

I agree with you that both parties need to work through this and NATCA inclusion is vital to the integrity of the investigation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This incident has changed my view of the NTSB.  In the past I have admired their meticulous attention to the process of finding the cause of accidents.  Their ability to look at a mob of reporters, who are asking for the cause of an accident while the wreckage still smolders, and say that they would not jump to conclusions until the investigation is complete.  I respected their recommendations, knowing that safety was the overriding intent, and shake my head when the FAA ignores the findings.</p>
<p>That being said, how the heck do they release a statement indicting the TEB controller, when their own timeline of events does not support the statement?  They just don&#8217;t make irresponsible public announcements such as this.  Not even when that hack Marion Blakey was running the NTSB.</p>
<p>The correction statement was less than genuine.  Buried under a huge headline that NATCA was kicked off the investigation, and 7 paragraphs attempting to justify this action, came the admission of error.  To their credit, most news sources saw through the smoke screen and reported the NTSB admission and the correction as the newsworthy item.  The exception was the WSJ which took the predictable ant-union slant and led off with NATCA getting publicly spanked.</p>
<p>I agree with you that both parties need to work through this and NATCA inclusion is vital to the integrity of the investigation.</p>
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