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	<title>Comments on: Preventing Another Hudson Midair</title>
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	<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/</link>
	<description>Aviation buzz and bold opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Lessons from the August 8th mid-air collision over the Hudson — Golf Hotel Whiskey</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-93931</link>
		<dc:creator>Lessons from the August 8th mid-air collision over the Hudson — Golf Hotel Whiskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-93931</guid>
		<description>[...] the other hand, blog entries by Max Trescott and Rob Mark (Jetwhine) both concluded that incident showed a need for collision avoidance systems to be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the other hand, blog entries by Max Trescott and Rob Mark (Jetwhine) both concluded that incident showed a need for collision avoidance systems to be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Renz</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-93818</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Renz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-93818</guid>
		<description>Bill, now I understand. Good point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, now I understand. Good point.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-93787</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-93787</guid>
		<description>That was exactly my point. Typing and speaking can carry different meanings. The statement was meant to be a little sarcastic. The &quot;don&#039;t&quot; applied only to the desire to buy light bulbs as the reason. 

How about this: Airlines all have the lights on below 10,000 feet (or higher) , and it&#039;s not because they like to buy light bulbs, it&#039;s because it reduces the chance of a midair collision!

Sorry for the confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was exactly my point. Typing and speaking can carry different meanings. The statement was meant to be a little sarcastic. The &#8220;don&#8217;t&#8221; applied only to the desire to buy light bulbs as the reason. </p>
<p>How about this: Airlines all have the lights on below 10,000 feet (or higher) , and it&#8217;s not because they like to buy light bulbs, it&#8217;s because it reduces the chance of a midair collision!</p>
<p>Sorry for the confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Renz</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-93726</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Renz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-93726</guid>
		<description>&quot;Airlines don’t have the lights on all the time below 10,000 because they like to buy light bulbs.&quot;

Not sure where you got this from. (Assuming you meant, &quot;... because they [don&#039;t] like to buy light bulbs.&quot;) The major airline I work for requires ALL exterior lights be ON below 18,000&#039;. Everyone in Flight Ops, training, etc., enforces this policy. Safety is always first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Airlines don’t have the lights on all the time below 10,000 because they like to buy light bulbs.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not sure where you got this from. (Assuming you meant, &#8220;&#8230; because they [don't] like to buy light bulbs.&#8221;) The major airline I work for requires ALL exterior lights be ON below 18,000&#8242;. Everyone in Flight Ops, training, etc., enforces this policy. Safety is always first.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-90040</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-90040</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Wes, but it is encouraging to  see that TCAS type systems are becoming available for light aircraft. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s time for mandating new expensive equipment.

That this type of accident is as rare as it is over the Hudson corridor is a testament to how effective the current system really is.  While the advances in technology will continue to make the situation safer, most of the proposals thrown out by the politicians would actually make things worse. 

I used to fly up that corridor as a new private pilot. The rules were simple: stay right, and watch for other traffic, because it IS there! And PLEASE folks, turn on those landing lights! They increase your visibility many times over - day and night. Airlines don&#039;t have the lights on all the time below 10,000 because they like to buy light bulbs.

Another technical correction (sorry)to add to RobM&#039;s in regards to: &quot;That equipment already tells controllers on the ground about the direction and aircraft is moving, as well as its altitude. &quot;

Actually, the transponder does not send position and direction of flight info (yet). Instead, the TCAS unit determines the relative position of the other traffic by analyzing the tranponder signal&#039;s relative position with a direction sensitive antenna and the time delay between interrogation and reply (essentially the same way ATC&#039;s secondary radar works). 
TCAS systems can only generate Resolution Advisories (climb or descent orders) if BOTH aircraft have a TCAS system, since the maneuver is coordinated between the two systems - otherwise the best you get is a traffic advisory.

A future system (just starting to be used in limited applications) is ADS-B (Automatic Dependant Surveillance - Broadcast), which will transmit a GPS position and other data that is received and displayed on other aircraft navigation displays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Wes, but it is encouraging to  see that TCAS type systems are becoming available for light aircraft. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s time for mandating new expensive equipment.</p>
<p>That this type of accident is as rare as it is over the Hudson corridor is a testament to how effective the current system really is.  While the advances in technology will continue to make the situation safer, most of the proposals thrown out by the politicians would actually make things worse. </p>
<p>I used to fly up that corridor as a new private pilot. The rules were simple: stay right, and watch for other traffic, because it IS there! And PLEASE folks, turn on those landing lights! They increase your visibility many times over &#8211; day and night. Airlines don&#8217;t have the lights on all the time below 10,000 because they like to buy light bulbs.</p>
<p>Another technical correction (sorry)to add to RobM&#8217;s in regards to: &#8220;That equipment already tells controllers on the ground about the direction and aircraft is moving, as well as its altitude. &#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the transponder does not send position and direction of flight info (yet). Instead, the TCAS unit determines the relative position of the other traffic by analyzing the tranponder signal&#8217;s relative position with a direction sensitive antenna and the time delay between interrogation and reply (essentially the same way ATC&#8217;s secondary radar works).<br />
TCAS systems can only generate Resolution Advisories (climb or descent orders) if BOTH aircraft have a TCAS system, since the maneuver is coordinated between the two systems &#8211; otherwise the best you get is a traffic advisory.</p>
<p>A future system (just starting to be used in limited applications) is ADS-B (Automatic Dependant Surveillance &#8211; Broadcast), which will transmit a GPS position and other data that is received and displayed on other aircraft navigation displays.</p>
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		<title>By: Wes Hartley</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-89674</link>
		<dc:creator>Wes Hartley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-89674</guid>
		<description>I think this accident was tragic and might have been prevented if several other things might have happened, but does this one accident really require new regulations to be written?

I think we may have lost perspective...hundreds of people die every day in auto accidents.  There are regulations for speed, sobriety, lane usage, seat belt usage, airbags, and even the mechanical state of the automobile...and yet people (thousands every year) die in automobile accidents.  Everyone knows where the dangerous stretch of road is in their neighborhood and they become more vigilant when they drive it.  Should that road be shut down, or only specially equipped cars given access?  No!  There is an expectation that a driver will be vigilant, drive carefully, and assume the risk involved in driving that dangerous stretch of road or find another route.

Again, I feel terrible that lives were lost in this accident, but it certainly  does not merit mandating extremely expensive avionics that might (or might not) have helped prevent this accident.  Flying involves risk and reward....as a pilot, I have to decide if the reward of a short-cut or pleasure flight through the Hudson corridor is worth the risk that trip carries....

I see no reason to mandate new equipment for pilots who have successfully and vigilantly flown in Bravo airspace for years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this accident was tragic and might have been prevented if several other things might have happened, but does this one accident really require new regulations to be written?</p>
<p>I think we may have lost perspective&#8230;hundreds of people die every day in auto accidents.  There are regulations for speed, sobriety, lane usage, seat belt usage, airbags, and even the mechanical state of the automobile&#8230;and yet people (thousands every year) die in automobile accidents.  Everyone knows where the dangerous stretch of road is in their neighborhood and they become more vigilant when they drive it.  Should that road be shut down, or only specially equipped cars given access?  No!  There is an expectation that a driver will be vigilant, drive carefully, and assume the risk involved in driving that dangerous stretch of road or find another route.</p>
<p>Again, I feel terrible that lives were lost in this accident, but it certainly  does not merit mandating extremely expensive avionics that might (or might not) have helped prevent this accident.  Flying involves risk and reward&#8230;.as a pilot, I have to decide if the reward of a short-cut or pleasure flight through the Hudson corridor is worth the risk that trip carries&#8230;.</p>
<p>I see no reason to mandate new equipment for pilots who have successfully and vigilantly flown in Bravo airspace for years.</p>
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		<title>By: Accident over the Hudson: can Max Trescott and Rob Mark (Jetwhine) be wrong ? &#124; Plastic Pilot</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-89643</link>
		<dc:creator>Accident over the Hudson: can Max Trescott and Rob Mark (Jetwhine) be wrong ? &#124; Plastic Pilot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-89643</guid>
		<description>[...] helicopter accident over the Hudson River. Two bloggers I appreciate and respect, Max Trescott and Rob Mark, both conclude that collision avoidance systems shall be mandated for light aircraft. They nuance [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] helicopter accident over the Hudson River. Two bloggers I appreciate and respect, Max Trescott and Rob Mark, both conclude that collision avoidance systems shall be mandated for light aircraft. They nuance [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-89537</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-89537</guid>
		<description>Your points about TCAS are very accurate Rob. A turn is often the best solution, but as you said, the technology is not there yet.

That was the saddest part of this accident is that the chances of either of these two pilots ever seeing each other from the angle they hit was almost nil.

Collision avoidance is coming. I remember when a 172 and a 727 ran together in southern California - probably 30 years ago - and killed everyone. 

The TCAs came to be after that ... and one more ugly midair. This is probably evolutionary in crowded airspace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your points about TCAS are very accurate Rob. A turn is often the best solution, but as you said, the technology is not there yet.</p>
<p>That was the saddest part of this accident is that the chances of either of these two pilots ever seeing each other from the angle they hit was almost nil.</p>
<p>Collision avoidance is coming. I remember when a 172 and a 727 ran together in southern California &#8211; probably 30 years ago &#8211; and killed everyone. </p>
<p>The TCAs came to be after that &#8230; and one more ugly midair. This is probably evolutionary in crowded airspace.</p>
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		<title>By: RobM</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/comment-page-1/#comment-89535</link>
		<dc:creator>RobM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/08/preventing-another-hudson-midair/#comment-89535</guid>
		<description>Good post except..  even if TCAS is made mandatory in light aircraft, helo&#039;s would probably be exempted as they&#039;re exempted from so many other things like this because of their mobility.

However, not to pick a bone, but TCAS only issues resolution advisories as climbs or descents.  No turns.  Sometimes.... many times... a turn is the better conflict resolution but as far as I know, the current TCAS system cannot or will not even calculate that.

This was an unfortunate but completely foreseeable incident.  Moderate to high volume of VFR traffic, stuck below busy IFR airspace and hemmed in by other airspace/city .  These pilots should have been on super-high alert and unfortunately, a bad mix of a climbing helo and a level cherokee makes see and avoid very tough.

I feel for the controller.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post except..  even if TCAS is made mandatory in light aircraft, helo&#8217;s would probably be exempted as they&#8217;re exempted from so many other things like this because of their mobility.</p>
<p>However, not to pick a bone, but TCAS only issues resolution advisories as climbs or descents.  No turns.  Sometimes&#8230;. many times&#8230; a turn is the better conflict resolution but as far as I know, the current TCAS system cannot or will not even calculate that.</p>
<p>This was an unfortunate but completely foreseeable incident.  Moderate to high volume of VFR traffic, stuck below busy IFR airspace and hemmed in by other airspace/city .  These pilots should have been on super-high alert and unfortunately, a bad mix of a climbing helo and a level cherokee makes see and avoid very tough.</p>
<p>I feel for the controller.</p>
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