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	<title>Comments on: Stuck on an Airport Ramp? &#8211; &quot;You Can&#8217;t Fix Stupid!&quot;</title>
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	<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/</link>
	<description>Aviation buzz and bold opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Air Travel Safety Tips &#124; change-direction.com</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-94989</link>
		<dc:creator>Air Travel Safety Tips &#124; change-direction.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 10:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-94989</guid>
		<description>[...] Stuck on an Airport Ramp? – &#8220;You Can’t Fix Stupid!&#8221; For some time, I have stood firmly on the side of the people who believe a law is needed to keep airline passengers from ending up trapped on the ramp inside an airplane for hours at a time. But I think I’m starting to be swayed. Part of my ambivalence is related to a number of industry folks I’ve spoken to over the past few months. First, my bias. I’ve only been held captive by an airline once or twice. The longest was on American Airlines at Tampa trying to get back to O’Hare when traffic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Stuck on an Airport Ramp? – &#8220;You Can’t Fix Stupid!&#8221; For some time, I have stood firmly on the side of the people who believe a law is needed to keep airline passengers from ending up trapped on the ramp inside an airplane for hours at a time. But I think I’m starting to be swayed. Part of my ambivalence is related to a number of industry folks I’ve spoken to over the past few months. First, my bias. I’ve only been held captive by an airline once or twice. The longest was on American Airlines at Tampa trying to get back to O’Hare when traffic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: National Air Disaster Alliance/Foundation</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-93462</link>
		<dc:creator>National Air Disaster Alliance/Foundation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-93462</guid>
		<description>[...] And, Jetwhine has a nice commentary from last week on the effectiveness (or not) of  a legislativ... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And, Jetwhine has a nice commentary from last week on the effectiveness (or not) of  a legislativ&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bonita J. Lehto</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-93403</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonita J. Lehto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 02:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-93403</guid>
		<description>No more rules or laws, we have enough!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No more rules or laws, we have enough!</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-93119</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 23:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-93119</guid>
		<description>Ron White is the comedian that says &quot;You can&#039;t fix stupid&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron White is the comedian that says &#8220;You can&#8217;t fix stupid&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-92969</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 22:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-92969</guid>
		<description>When conditions in the cabin reach the point where food and water are exhausted, toilets are overflowing, etc. then the captain should declare an emergency and deplane the passengers.  It&#039;s inhumane to keep revenue passengers in conditions which even Guantanamo inmates don&#039;t endure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When conditions in the cabin reach the point where food and water are exhausted, toilets are overflowing, etc. then the captain should declare an emergency and deplane the passengers.  It&#8217;s inhumane to keep revenue passengers in conditions which even Guantanamo inmates don&#8217;t endure.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-92957</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-92957</guid>
		<description>And these are just the comments from those of you who posted. I have a few more interesting private responses as well.

All of these run the gamut of the concerns, from which airline WOULD I choose to when do the lawyers get more involved and the reality of the flying world as Bill Palmer and Paul Rice explained.

No one ever PLANS to make people sit in the cabin with no food, no water and no info. Things happen for sure. 

While I don&#039;t believe a law will fix this, the airlines are forced - yet again - to focus on that customer service problem that they need serious work on.

And too, it only takes a few incidents at Delta or United or American to make customers forget all the other times they flew the same carrier without a problem.

As someone said in one of the private notes however, that should be the airline&#039;s training problem, not the customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And these are just the comments from those of you who posted. I have a few more interesting private responses as well.</p>
<p>All of these run the gamut of the concerns, from which airline WOULD I choose to when do the lawyers get more involved and the reality of the flying world as Bill Palmer and Paul Rice explained.</p>
<p>No one ever PLANS to make people sit in the cabin with no food, no water and no info. Things happen for sure. </p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t believe a law will fix this, the airlines are forced &#8211; yet again &#8211; to focus on that customer service problem that they need serious work on.</p>
<p>And too, it only takes a few incidents at Delta or United or American to make customers forget all the other times they flew the same carrier without a problem.</p>
<p>As someone said in one of the private notes however, that should be the airline&#8217;s training problem, not the customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-92929</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 17:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-92929</guid>
		<description>I agree with Paul Rice&#039;s statements above. 

As far as the other airlines go, I can tell you that Northwest, for one, has had a ramp delay policy in place for a long time that allows (requires) the captain to declare a kind of return-to-gate recovery when the ground delay has reached two hour mark going out, or 1 hour coming in (the policy has exceptions - but that&#039;s the general idea).
This was instituted (as I recall) shortly after a freak ice storm in DTW in the early 90&#039;s had airplanes stuck out on the ramp for up to 5-6 hours. I was one of them. We had no idea it would be that long.  We kept getting milked along in 20 and 30 minute increments by ATC, airport authorities, and the deicing crews (who were not expecting this storm [nobody was] - so manpower and warm fluid were in short supply).

The policy is also clear that pilots will keep passengers informed of delays and updated on a regular basis. (actual minute values are specified, but I won&#039;t quote them here). 
So, no, Southwest is not the only airline to take a responsible approach to this.

No law would have changed a thing, unless they can write a law that we&#039;ll always have good weather, runways will never need to be closed for plowing, crews won&#039;t run out of duty time, equipment will always be in tip-top shape and never out of commission, adequate staff will always be available, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Paul Rice&#8217;s statements above. </p>
<p>As far as the other airlines go, I can tell you that Northwest, for one, has had a ramp delay policy in place for a long time that allows (requires) the captain to declare a kind of return-to-gate recovery when the ground delay has reached two hour mark going out, or 1 hour coming in (the policy has exceptions &#8211; but that&#8217;s the general idea).<br />
This was instituted (as I recall) shortly after a freak ice storm in DTW in the early 90&#8242;s had airplanes stuck out on the ramp for up to 5-6 hours. I was one of them. We had no idea it would be that long.  We kept getting milked along in 20 and 30 minute increments by ATC, airport authorities, and the deicing crews (who were not expecting this storm [nobody was] &#8211; so manpower and warm fluid were in short supply).</p>
<p>The policy is also clear that pilots will keep passengers informed of delays and updated on a regular basis. (actual minute values are specified, but I won&#8217;t quote them here).<br />
So, no, Southwest is not the only airline to take a responsible approach to this.</p>
<p>No law would have changed a thing, unless they can write a law that we&#8217;ll always have good weather, runways will never need to be closed for plowing, crews won&#8217;t run out of duty time, equipment will always be in tip-top shape and never out of commission, adequate staff will always be available, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-92740</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-92740</guid>
		<description>Part of the problem with trying to pick a higher-quality airline to fly on is...how do you pick?  If you go looking on the Internet you&#039;ll find people enraged at every single one of them.  How do you decide which enrages the fewest customers?  If you are one of those people who flies twice a week, I guess you will form your own opinion, but those of us who fly every few years don&#039;t have much personal experience to go on, and maybe your previous experience from years ago isn&#039;t current enough to be useful anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the problem with trying to pick a higher-quality airline to fly on is&#8230;how do you pick?  If you go looking on the Internet you&#8217;ll find people enraged at every single one of them.  How do you decide which enrages the fewest customers?  If you are one of those people who flies twice a week, I guess you will form your own opinion, but those of us who fly every few years don&#8217;t have much personal experience to go on, and maybe your previous experience from years ago isn&#8217;t current enough to be useful anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: DisgruntledFlyer</title>
		<link>http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/comment-page-1/#comment-92727</link>
		<dc:creator>DisgruntledFlyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jetwhine.com/2009/09/stuck-on-an-airport-ramp-you-cant-fix-stupid/#comment-92727</guid>
		<description>It seems like common sense could solve this one.  But being modern America, I guess we need to resort to lawsuits and legislation.  I&#039;m sure Congress will get it squared away.

But it could be a slippery slope.  What happens when there&#039;s a delay after take off?  After how many spins in the hold can a passenger demand that the plane divert?  We&#039;ll have to go back to a minimum cockpit crew of 3... PIC, SIC, &amp; Lawyer-In-Command.  Sadly, this may be cheaper than the lawsuits to come.

And what if there is a Congressperson onboard [I hear there were only 4 military bizjets for Nancy to choose from last Memorial Day!]?  Surely we can&#039;t expect them to endure the same inconveniences we do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like common sense could solve this one.  But being modern America, I guess we need to resort to lawsuits and legislation.  I&#8217;m sure Congress will get it squared away.</p>
<p>But it could be a slippery slope.  What happens when there&#8217;s a delay after take off?  After how many spins in the hold can a passenger demand that the plane divert?  We&#8217;ll have to go back to a minimum cockpit crew of 3&#8230; PIC, SIC, &amp; Lawyer-In-Command.  Sadly, this may be cheaper than the lawsuits to come.</p>
<p>And what if there is a Congressperson onboard [I hear there were only 4 military bizjets for Nancy to choose from last Memorial Day!]?  Surely we can&#8217;t expect them to endure the same inconveniences we do.</p>
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